In conversation with Scott Ross


(Photo by Emma Peios)

Today was the highlight of my time in Hong Kong so far. I was lucky enough to have a chat with Scott Ross, CEO of Digital Domain (filmography here).
It’s not often you get to speak face to face on a personal level with the head
of the company that produced the visual effects for Titanic, the biggest-grossing Box-office movie of all time and have your motivations, ideas and business model
challenged at a basic level within a five minute informal conversation.

The event was the Digital Entertainment Leadership Forum 2007 (DELF) which is a forum for major figures in international digital entertainment to come together and discuss the major issues of the day.
The subject for this year’s event was “The Future of Digital Storytelling.”

The event consisted of keynote speeches and panel discussions. The speakers included Warren Franklin from Rainmaker who oversaw the visual
effects of Terminator 2, The Abyss, Jurassic Park, Aeon Flux, The Empire Strikes
Back and Return of the Jedi, Victor Wong of Menfond (Hero), Paul Wang
(Antz, Shrek) - in fact too many to mention!

During one of the panels, “Business Builders: Trends in the 21st Century. What does it take to make it in the complex and costly F/X frontier”, things started to get off-topic but in a very positive and interesting way. Some of the major themes of the event started to collide and ring true with the thinking I’ve been developing over the last year or so.

Many of Hong Kong’s creative companies are operating in the ’service’ space - doing outsourced post-production, digital effects, web production and marketing. This means they work for clients on the production and development of creative content, but once that content has been produced they have no ownership over the intellectual property
they have produced.

All of the keynotes and panel debates seemed to be pushing the idea that in a global marketplace, companies which are operating solely on a service model are doomed to a cycle of hand-to-mouth production on increasingly narrowing margins. As governments around the world attempt to grow the creative industries in their respective territories they
introduce short-term tax breaks and subsidies (or ‘investments’ as Andrew Senior from the British Council points out they should be termed). As tax-breaks come to an end, other territories become more attractive to international companies and the business moves to where the “minds are brightest and the hands the cheapest”.

This trend isn’t just isolated to Hong Kong - it’s an international phenomenon. Content production is becoming globalised and Hollywood’s strangle-hold on distribution channels and production models is being eroded by cheaper high quality production around the world.

The central issue though is that building businesses based around an outsourced model is a risky proposition.

The message is clear. If you’re a creative business you need to make the progression from service your client’s needs to developing your own intellectual property and creative content.

I’ve been thinking this for some time. I was involved in a European DVD project last year called ‘CREATE’, produced by Maverick TV
to promote the understanding of intellectual property for creative companies. Since then I’ve been grappling with how it is possible for a service based business like 3form to make the transition to being a content producer and intellectual property owner, and it’s been difficult.

At the end of last year we finished a new business plan aimed at doing just that, and through the Small Firms’ Loan Guarantee scheme with the DTI we secured some funding from the bank to help us grow. But there’s only so much that a business plan can do for you. Since then I’ve been trying to get a clear idea of what I practically need to do to make the
transition. So I thought - this would be a good forum to ask the question.

All of the panels included a question along the lines of “What advice would you give someone starting out in the content production business?”, and there had already been some great answers:

“Find people who motivate you”, “Back yourself creatively” - Michael Stephens, Wignut Film’s Lawyer

“Keep the quality high”, “Take risks - create your own market” - Andrew Senior, Head of Creative Industries, British Council

“Get a great team” - Lorraine Justice, HK Polytechnic University

“Have a willingness to fail”, “Look at the kids - they get it”,
Find the best people and work with them”, “The harder you work the
luckier you’ll get”
- Lawrence Behrs - Founder, South Park Media

“Get money” - Lifeng Wang, Founder, Eastar Digital Corp

“Have passion for what you do”, “Combine artists, programmers and businesspeople and you will have success” - Victor Wong

But I was looking for something a little more concrete, so I put up my hand and asked a question:

“In a World of so many oppportunities how can a small company like
mine choose which ones to go for, and what practical advice would you
give to someone looking to move from digital service to digital
content?”

The answers that came back were really varied. Andrew Senior was very practical - “Be strategic. Know exactly where you are going and make sure that every step takes you closer to your goal.”, but Victor Wong was contradictory - “Be random. Look at the opportunities you have and build on your strengths. Look at the risks associated with each one
and choose appropriately.”

“Seek out excellence”, “Get on a plane”, “Get out from behind your desk”, “Network and collaborate” were all good comments too.

Then, once the panel had finished, the discussion went out to another question. That’s when Scott Ross tapped me on the shoulder, mic in hand.

He chooses all of the things he does by weighing three criteria up:

  • How much fun will it be?
  • How much money will it make?
  • What contribution to society will it make?

His advice to me was to balance up any potential project against these criteria and choose appropriately.

After the panel discussion ended, I turned around and thanked him. I told him that I’d tried that in the past - balancing up the ‘fun’ element with making money and where possible working on projects that have a social impact, but that running a small company it is often too difficult and you inevitably end up working hand to mouth doing projects just fo the sake of getting the money in to pay the bills.

He told me that as you go through life you start to see a ‘treadmill effect’ where the projects get bigger and more high profile, the work gets riskier and longer with more people involved and the decisions don’t really change that much. He still weighs up any project that he’s asked to do against these three measures. Sometimes he’s found himself in the
position where he’s had to do a project just for cashflow reasons. There’s a certain responsibility that comes with running a large company. People need security and occasionally you have to take on a project just for the money. But as long as the net effect is that the three measures are fulfilled then you can say your company is a success.

He said that he likes to measure his own success purely on a personal level. He’s had opportunities in the past to be part of things that have made a lot of money, but at the expense of other people which he has turned down on moral grounds, such as cigarette commercials. I could relate to this on a smaller scale - I’ve turned military projects, work for SUV companies and ethically unsound and exploitative work. And these were usually at times when we really needed the work for cashflow.

So ’stick to your guns’ seems to be a good rule.

“When you look back at your career, how would you know if you were successful or not?”, I asked him.

“In the end, all that matters is family. Family first,” was his response. Having run one of the most successful movie companies in the world it obviously had an impact on his personal life, and I can relate to that too. I’m guilty of working every hour of the day for my clients. I start at 6.30 in the morning on email and usually stop at about 10pm at night. With a three-month old baby to consider, this really isn’t a viable way of life - fine for a batchelor, but Scott’s advice was to focus on what really matters - the family and personal
happiness.

At some point, you’ll be on that treadmill and will suddenly think “Hang on i didn’t want to be on this any more” - that’s the point to be looking at your options and intelligently changing your model so you can step off the treadmill and work on what’s important for you as a
person.

It’s triple bottom line theory that my friends Antonio Gould and
Martin Buttle have often talked with me about. Perhaps its time I took some of this advice on board, stopped donating so much of my time to other people, especially on projects I care a lot about but ultimately don’t pay me anything and concentrated on those three criteria.

The Digital Pioneers programme is all about challenging our preconceptions and our business models.

Just for those five minutes with Scott, this programme will have been worth it.

11 Comments

  1. Jan
    March 22, 2007 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Really enjoyed reading this, Stef. What a great experience and not just food, but a veritable feast for thought!

  2. March 22, 2007 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    It’s triple bottom line theory that my friends Antonio Gould and
    Martin Buttle have often talked with me about. Perhaps its time I took some of this advice on board, stopped donating so much of my time to other people, especially on projects I care a lot about but ultimately don’t pay me anything and concentrated on those three criteria.

    OK, I feel this is vital, absolutely vital. So much we get taken for granted and unable to see the benefit in these situations other than a small piece of profile raising, and that does not pay the bills. I have wanted to shout this philosophy for a while and think that we should be looking at the ethical/fun/revenue elements of a project but being a little more forceful in how much we give away.

    This part of your tour sounded like the perfect stage for picking the minds of the successful, but the perfect example of how you can achieve success with a life to boot!

    Plus, I can’t believe you were allowed to take the 5D with you. Some glorious shots here man. But beware of shooting in markets - me and the Chef from Opus nearly got arrested yesterday, until I mentioned I knew Suzie!

  3. March 22, 2007 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Triple bottom line theory. Interesting. In my day it was the three Ps but they were:

    * Profit
    * Portfolio
    * Pleasure

    You need at least two.
    Your Ps are a lot more ethically sound.

  4. March 22, 2007 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    and nobody mentioned beer… damn.

    a good read, not enough musical references for my liking though - you should have asked him what he thought of the new laura veirs album! ;-)

    hope yr having a good time mate!

  5. stef
    March 23, 2007 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    Glad you all thought this was worthwhile reading through - thanks for the comments.

    @John - he said that if I have anything else I want to ask him then I should, so maybe I’ll talk music next time!

    @Jake - I’m going to look into this a little more and blog the results. I’ve already had some other suggestions from other people out here as to what their three would be.

    @Karl - having fun and bought some new lenses too… glad you’re thinking this is all the right way to be going!

    @Jan - you’re not wrong there… I think I need a holiday after the last couple of weeks just to collate my thoughts. Lots of things seem to be coming together at the moment, with lots of opportunities that seem to be connecting… a positive time!

    Thanks all - it’s my last day here tomorrow.

  6. March 24, 2007 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Stef - ditto above…it’s really interesting to hear about the triple bottom line theory…I think it gets to a stage when you can’t give it all away for free and with minimal payback, financial or otherwise.

    Karl - I see!! Using your film office contacts to avoid arrest…Mmm I may have to turn a blind eye to that!

  7. emily
    March 24, 2007 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Ah…I’m _finally_ getting to round to reading this now that we are home.
    Will be good to hear about it in person though before you whizz up North next week!

  8. March 25, 2007 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for this glimpse.
    Smart man, Scott Ross.
    –b

  9. April 1, 2007 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Yo where’s the photo credit on this pic Mr Spam On Legs? ha ha
    Still recovering from our trip… not missing the 12 course lunches tho.
    See you soon.

  10. stef
    April 1, 2007 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Hi Emma - sorry about that - I’ve added a credit… thanks!

  11. Scott Ross
    April 7, 2007 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    So… bein a bit bored, I was surfing the web and came upon this blog… hmmm, you make me sound so much smarter than I am!!! Thanks…. btw, if you ever wanna talk music…. I did get to tour w some really great bands back in the early 70’s… actually played cow bell on a Jimi track!

    Cheers
    S

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